Not to say that I'm calling bullshit on your apology (I very well may later on) it seems that you had "Hack Girls" in 2008 as well.

Since this is tradition as opposed to an aberration I'd like to get a few bits of information from you.

1. What will you do to correct it (a few words on a site you own and control really isn't much)?
2. By referring to women as "Hack Girls" you realize that you all but completely negate the sincerity of the apology.

Thank you.

Not to make it seem like this is something trivial but I accept that Yahoo has quickly responded with an apology..

@Jessica - what more than a sorry and a 'it won't happen again' is hard for you to understand?

Also it's not like these girls were nude - they were dressed a little revealingly but I don't think there weren't any minors at the dev conference. We're adults here, let's act like one instead of acting like a little revealing clothing offended our Puritan hearts so much.

@J Davis do me a favor and check my blog jessicagottlieb dot com.

Look at the "developer" on the far left and you tell me if women were welcomed by Yahoo.

we've done this before with Hoss at the Flash thingie... it's just not okay.

This apology is a bit anemic.

@J Davis Wow, are you living in the dark ages? Does someone really need to explain to you why this was soooo inappropriate?? Just because we're adults doesn't mean we want to watch "adult" entertainment at a business function. Maybe after the dancing girls they could have a black face minstrel act come out.

I'm saddened to hear that this has happened at prior events and no one has thought to say anything till now.
Thank you Jessica Gottlieb!

I'm with @Jessica. I'm glad to see an apology, but as they go, this is a bit thin. It's difficult to "rest assured," as commanded, based on this expression of concern for message and public reaction. If you think this is all that's needed, perhaps read the Flashbelt apology to get a sense of a convincing way to take responsibility.

I have to weigh what I say fairly carefully...

That said, this is an astonishing display of lacking self awareness, as well as community awareness. There have been far too many events in recent months that highlighted the wannabe-fratboy culture that has been slowly but surely emerging in the engineering community for the organizers to completely ignore the issue.

It's one thing to shoot the shit around the office and pass raunchy links around, it's another thing entirely to organize a COMMUNITY OUTREACH event that alienates an already unfortunately small portion of said community.

This is the kind of stuff people get canned or "step down" over.

J Davis: I'm sure you would have felt differently if the entertainers were male.

Or, imagine you're one of twenty guys at a very well known sewing colloquium. Imagine, then, that they announce it's time for the "Mail Man" male strippers to make their rounds on stage. Sure, you could argue that you'd be fine with it, but in real life you would almost certainly feel marginalized and like you didn't belong.

And, these kinds of showings really and truly change how we think, greatly in the short term, and to some extent in the long term. If there are "dancing girls," people will much more readily talk about "hot chicks" and will be less aware of an opposing opinion of what's going on - because it's supported by the people in charge. Long term, the recurrence of these kind of events solidifies the way in which we think about sexes and how we relate to those we know.

Back to short term, this kind of event creates an atmosphere, an aura, where a group is marginalized and sexualized. Not to jump on the hating J. Davis train for the sake of being with the crowd, but damn, boy. Read up on psychology and sociology in terms of how racism/sexism works and how marginalism happens. It's kind of a big deal.

@eric very well expressed, thank you.
As both a female and a racial minority it's such a blow to see reactions of people who don't care to even attempt to consider what it's like to constantly be shown you're devalued/not taken seriously at these kind of events.

While I wasn't at either Taiwan event, I participated in or helped to organize fifteen internal, six university-level, and seven public Hack Days while at Yahoo. I never saw anything but the utmost respect and encouragement for all hackers, female or otherwise, from the company's founders all the way down to grunts like me.

While I am not-repeat-NOT trying to minimize what went on, especially in light of the pictures from 2008 which look essentially identical, I think it's important to understand that the organizers may have made a simple error and confused hackers with gamers. (Yeah. But. Twice. I know. Stupid. And it's wrong anyway, gamers or hackers. Growl.)

For good or evil, the various Yahoo! organizations tend to be loosely coupled, especially across international borders. I'm personally prepared to take YDN's apology at face value, cut everybody a small break, and look forward to renewed commitment from Yahoo and YDN to all hackers everywhere.

I think they should start with a scholarship or two. Chris?

After looking at the pics of the Hack Day, its needless to say i'm disappointed.
But having been a part of two Hack Days(One Univ, one Open) and then having worked at Yahoo!, I know the kind of importance and respect given by Yahoo! ppl to the organization of these events.
What happened at Open Hack Taiwan sure dosn't fit with the general observation.
And when Yahoo! reverts back with an apology, I am more than ready to believe that this would not happen in the future, not there, not anywhere.

As for the "lack respect shown to the developer community" argument, rest assured it was not a deliberate effort to disgrace us all.

Regards
Shaishav

Is this how we do brand relaunch?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cocakl/4021661159/in/set-72157622485872337/

This is Taiwan... the other side of the world to you Americans. If China invaded would you care? Nope. But some dancing girls appear at a technology function and you're all jumping up and down screaming about inappropriate behaviour. Again forcing your views on what's morally right on the rest of the world.

I am not surprised, in 2006 or 05, I was at Taipei Computex, all I saw was people shooting SGs... some of them even stepped up to the stage, blocking the view of other people. I can't even see what the SG was holding.

Really, what Taiwan have? nothing, I dare say, NOTHING! No patent, all technology are held by foreign companies. What can they show to others? except boobs and asses?

Hack day in my mind supposed to be a conference-like meeting, or Lanparty-like, where "hackers" can exchange/share ideas and practice their skills... not showing boobs and asses.

Dave makes more sense than most of the other commenters here. Sure, it's YDN and an event like that just isn't appropriate, but if you're that sensitive I suggest you do not look into any of the worse 'problems' that arise in those countries.

@Jessica Gottlieb

In what was does #2 "negate" his apology?

Seriously...he is just referring to the women in question...this is the same as referring the "The Spice Girls" as "The Spice Girls" and carries no anti-female, female-objectification,etc connotation whatsoever in the context of his apology.

As for you first point, it's been made perfectly clear that it will not happen again.

Obviously the original incident is regrettable not just because it is offensive to some people's sensibilities, but because it is indicative of a larger disconnect with women in general...

...but nobody is perfect; people make mistakes..not everyone can be as progressive as you and if people demonstrate a recognition of their mistakes and a desire and willingness to change them I am of the mind that we should forgive them and help them to move forward rather than continuing to be outraged at spilt milk and being overly punitive.

I am not an apologist for the incident in question, but your refusal to accept what strikes one as an earnest apology and puzzling apoplexy at simply referring to the incident in question will hurt your agenda in the long run.

srsly, if there is another event, I don't think there will be much difference than this one.

Honestly I think everyone is getting worked up over nothing. The fact remains that the majority of attendees at these events are men. Men like scantily clad women. It's not hard to understand why they were there.

As to whether or not this debases women and trivializes our role within the IT community... seriously?

Making a gigantic fuss and screaming about feminism is the problem. Hell, I'm a woman and it annoys me. Get over yourselves.

If you think that the strippers at this event are undermining your talent, then obviously you're not a very good developer.

Women in IT who flaunt their intellects make it very uncomfortable for the hack girls who just want to be able to trade off their good lucks.

Get over yourselves.

No need to apologies, Chris.

Whether us Westerners like it or not having girls dance as they did is the norm.

Here's a video of a pole dancer hired to perform at a Temple by the local authorities.

http://www.architxt.net/blog/yahoo-and-the-taiwanese-hack-girls

If girls & Gods can mix so can girls and geeks.

All of the peeps who said "How would you feel if they were male strippers?", … they'd be fine about it, coz THEY'RE ALL GAY!

Personally, I think it's time to use animals in these events, just to spice it up a bit.

Peace & love.

Pete.

I think hack girl show is no problem.

The point is that "The Hack Day is Fake", because most teams finished their creations before the event rather than Hacking and Thinking on the ground. We didn't see "24hr Hacking" that is just like the sentences on the event slogans.

So if no girls, why real hackers attend this event? Yahoo must think of why so many hackers is hacking for Google rather than Yahoo ? If Yahoo doesn't have any special techniques to attract hackers, the hot girl is their only one choice.

Really, that's how women at Hack Day should be. Maybe a little more buxom next time though.

We could use more of that kind of stuff here in the US. There might not be a lot of chicks in IT, but really, do we need them? They can hold their little management positions, leave the real work to us men.

I've been a demo chick/booth girl at a few expo's and I know very well I can lure men into the booth with my legs and blow them away with my brains. The extra fluff at any of these shows certainly don't offend or intimidate me.

This basically says that "this is a guys-only event -- no women apply... unless, of course, your ass is hanging out the bottom of your daisy dukes."

Guys, if you don't understand why women find this as offense, then at least understand why they find it as just another way of men telling them they're not included.

@Skip, I know you're trying to be funny, but maybe try harder next time... or maybe try growing up.

I agree with Kristine here.

I'm a woman and a minority. I'm in IT for quite a few years.

The show girl incident annoys me and, yes , it was inappropriate for the occasion. There's an apology and a promise it won't happen again. That's it , case closed , what else is there to discuss?

Do we need to fuss about how we are offended? Are you really? Because I'm not offended. I do not identify with the "hack girls", they have nothing to do with me being an engineer and they do not undermine my position in IT in any way.

Honestly,

Anyone who got their um "undergarments" twisted over this probably didn't:

-Look at much yahoo taiwan content (just go to tw.yahoo.com and click around some)

-Buy a Taiwan Beer from any establishment while at the hack day event.

-Fly to Taiwan on Eva Air

Things are different in other countries I don't think pretending everywhere is America is a very great approach for an international company either.

Are people also upset that female news reporters in the KSA cover their hair up? I'm embarrassed that Y! apologized for this.

"The fact remains that the majority of attendees at these events are men. Men like scantily clad women. It's not hard to understand why they were there."

And why do you think the majority of attendees are men? Could it have anything to do with the fact that the organizers obviously think women only exist as sexual entertainment for men, not as peers, programmers or hackers?

Get over it. Move on. Mind your own business.

I didn't attend the Taiwan Open Hack Day.

However, I would like to state that I have attended other Hack Days in the past. The Open Hack Day NYC this year was the finest event I've ever attended and felt most welcome during the entire event.

Wow, interesting...it seems like many people here are missing one of the main points. Shareholders in any company have a vested interest in attracting the very best talent available. Without the best engineers, managers, analysts, and staff, how can Yahoo expect to compete in what is a *very* competitive market? Sexist nonsense such as what happened at this event certainly does nothing to attract amazing women to Yahoo. Maybe some women don't mind, but many do (obviously). This limits your pool of talent and tarnishes the reputation of the the company. "Cultural sensitivity" (per Dave and Joe above) doesn't have anything to do with it -- it doesn't matter that this was an event based in Taiwan and isn't about American's pushing their belief system on others. It's about the bottom line, boys (pun intended). Put off investors and inhibit your ability to attract top talent and you have.... oh, a company no longer at the top of their game. Duh!

First of all, these girls are not strippers. They are show girls.

I'm seeing people complaining about a 3-minute dance girl show in an otherwise fine 2 day hacker event. Come on, were you there? Do you really know what was going on? There were female hackers in the event. If they don't complain, what's the fuss?

It's held in TAIWAN. So unless you're in Taiwan or even FROM Taiwan, which I'm pretty sure none of you are, on what basis are you judging on what's happening in another country anyway? The culture there is completely different, and it's not like they're doing anything illegal. Want to complain about gender equality here in the States, no problem with me. If you want to complain about what's happening in Taiwan, be there first, then consider whining.

Then again when/if you're actually there you'd be bombarded with a bunch of other ridiculous things going on, both political and cultural in nature, that this is nothing out of the ordinary.

Don't believe my words? I don't really care either way.

As a professional who works in the IT world, this type of action is beyond offensive and repugnant. As for those of you who say 'get over it,' the concept of sexual harassment is probably not one which you can grasp. Yahoo's apology is not enough. This type of behavior does not belong in a professional business environment, and for all those boys (and apologist girls) who clearly lack the intelligence and maturity to understand how unacceptable this is, let me inform you that the action of hiring strippers for work/business events does have a legal precedent for sexual harassment cases. And maybe it is OK in Taiwan, but I am sure Yahoo's contracts for paid search and other such things in America, make it a company which has an interest in upholding sound business ethics. I hope Yahoo makes good on it's 'values' speak and does more than just offer this fickle apology. In the meantime, I hope this comes back to haunt Yahoo and those who participated in this pathetic event.

--Kevin

While they may be dressed a bit revealingly, this is the norm for any type of technology based convention, be it hardware or software related. Just look at past E3's and BlizCon's. This is nothing new, so why the outcry now?

There was nothing wrong with having the Hack Girls there. Props to yahoo for the event and for putting in good looking women there. I'll be recommending yahoo to friends.

I'm jealous that the Taiwan office has such enjoyable fringe benefits. Please extend these events to the US offices as well. Yahoo's #1 corporate ethic is to have fun, and this is an exemplary example. Keep up the good work!

You need to encourage this, and state explicitly how this actually helps boost moral for the developers.

I, for one, would work for half my pay if there were lap-dances involved.

There's nothing wrong with this, I don't know why Yahoo feels compelled to recant and state it's a mistake when it's quite obvious the developers were having fun, and the girls were paid to be there, so they're probably happy too.

The only people I hear are unhappy are those that aren't getting any most likely.

Don't succumb to society, Yahoo!, be your own company! Own it, make it your trademark!

Dave at October 19, 2009 11:27 PM writes, "This is Taiwan... the other side of the world to you Americans. If China invaded would you care? Nope."

Thus, in a short sequence of sentences we have a parade of ignorance with regard to US foreign policy since 1949. And I don't even have to address the obvious moral relativism which also conveniently allows for the offshoring of some of the nasty stuff that wouldn't be allowed at home, either. But then we soon get back to US foreign policy again, and I know I'm not exactly responding to an expert on the topic.

Hello.
I'm an 18 year old girl and as much as i am not happy about seeing this, it doesn't surprise me. It's how are world is now. We are ALL for selling the image of a woman. I have an idea though, lets stop yelling at yahoo for this and yell at ALL the companies that sell a fake, plastic image of women. For example, GUESS, cause in an ad for their clothes, the girl had almost nothing on and then Rappers cause the girls in their videos are always wearing little clothes and have close ups of their breasts and butts. But for some reason we see things like what i've said as normal cause we see it all the time. It's like Janet Jackson's pasty covered nipple. We flipped over that, but NOT the commercial with a scantily clad girl eating a burger while moaning on a mechanical bull.
So seriously, we all need to calm down. Yahoo gave an apology and said won't happen again. Let's sit down and live our own lives.
thanks

I'm sure Yahoo would LOVE for everyone to continue discussing all this nonsense... so they can concentrate on charging their PPC customers for fraudulent Yahoo partner traffic. Dangling half naked girls in front of spider monkey geeks is the LEAST of Yahoo's problems.

Jessica Gottlieb, you paint yourself as a prude. When have you physically gone anywhere to educate the masses, other then its so easy to pick away at a typewriter and become a holier then tho feminist. Even your mentor Gloria Steinem has back tracked quite abit from her sixties feminine movement, and burning of the Bra's days. What your writing about is so old and cliche. You must go to the second hand book stores for your old thoughts on feminism. I've got you pegged as a conservative hillbilly, who has only recently come out of the woods and found the world a little to scary to handle.

Posted by: Nathan at October 20, 2009 1:57 PM

Nathan, I am from Taiwan, i was born and raised in Taichung city in central Taiwan. I can still type out the home address I used to live. Now I am studying in Canada.

Why this is not appropriate? simply image strippers dancing on the stage of a world-class conference, or Intel developers forum. It's simply not a right thing to do and it defies the professions and industry.

It also draws attention away from the intended purpose: to research, to practice, to exchange ideas. I am not saying you can't have some relax moment, but do it else where, not in the middle of it.

It saddens me to see what my home country has become.

Only ugly women complain about good looking females doing something that they most likely enjoy doing and that is being appreciated for their good looks. No one is forcing them to take that job and no one is forcing you to look. Not to mention they apologized about it, not that they had to in the first place. Stop making mountains out of molehills.

This was an event in TAIWAN...

If Taiwanese women (or men, for that matter) felt this was wrong, they will speak up for themselves, thank you very much.

@Vince:
It was an event in Taiwan BY AN AMERICAN COMPANY. We don't allow women lap dancers and corporate events in America for a reason. Actually, several reasons.

If you boys cannot get that through your thick skulls, then there is no point in debate with you, because obviously basic human decency and respect is beyond your comprehension (@wayne john and tony). I hope you two don't have wives or daughters.

And Trish, it is not a molehill. You are obviously clueless to everything women have had to fight for over the years to be treated with respect and equality in the workforce. They apologized because in America, corporations are held accountable for pulling crap like that.

I think your over reacting.

I saw your blog Jessica and yes i admit the girls do look and in very hot tight pants, but hardly anything to make a fuss about.

Maybe next time they can have men dancers to make it fairer. Would you be happier then? Until then just chill :x

I am a Taiwanese female engineer, currently working in the US for a short term. I think the lap dance in Yahoo Open Hack Day is inappropriate. The fact that Taiwanese people do not often read or comment on English websites does not mean we think it is OK.

It is Taiwanese culture to invite pop stars to sing or to dance in business events, or to invite fashion models to demo a new product. But having lap dance on stage during the business event is very inappropriate.

It is probably true that we do not yet have legal regulations to prohibit sexually oriented performance in business events, but some people are working hard on the gender equality laws in Taiwan. It is very disappointing to see that an American company allows what is prohibited in the US to happen in Taiwan.

I think those who are "outraged" have to stop and think first. They're in a different culture, a different country, with different norms. So unless America is now the world then there will always be differences. However the lap dancing may have been too much, but everything else would be "about normal" anyway, just like booth babes in Computex for example.

I really must admit though that the girls in this side of the world (Asia) are really hot and cute (well mostly). XD

Pole dancer is very popular in Taiwan. They don't think of it in the same way as strip dancer in USA. They used it to attract people's attention to the events.

@Trish

I agree,most women who consider themselves unattractive tend to project their insecurities onto women they THINK look better than they do..they do it all the time,you can't watch TV with them,or walk down the street with them without them making snide remarks about other women and how "slutty"they're dressed,or how much of a whore they think they are..seriously..it's ALWAYS something with them .for these type of women an apology will never appease them,they need blood,and a pledge to be sensitive to issues that concern women,to be SURE this will NEVER happen again..

@Elise Crane Derby

I think that your analogy that somehow a "Minstrel Show"and people in "black face" and some dancing chicks in short shorts are somehow on the same wavelength of offensiveness just shows how out of touch with reality you really are..I suggest you read up on exactly what it is about racist imagery that makes Blacks find it so offensive..and to think...you share the opinion that it's YAHOO that needs to issue apologies,and how sincere they are or aren't..

All in all,as others have said..these women need to get over themselves..Yahoo made a little faux pas..maybe a misguided attempt at humor of the media's depiction of a "typical hacker" almost always being male,porn loving recluses that get flustered when presented with real flesh(think "Lone Gunmen"from the X Files series)so they thought they'd poke a little fun at that stereotype,maybe get a laugh at the ones who would get flustered..big deal..they apologized for what they did,because,who knows..maybe they realized,in hindsight,that maybe it WAS a little immature,asinine,unprofessional etc,etc,etc..who are you to "call bullshit" ?..UNLESS that is,you can also read minds as well as know what's in a person heart merely by the words they type on a blog.

How about... "waste of money?" Do you want to attract people excited by their work or by T&A?

C'mon, this is just bad business!

Although... it is the first time I've paid attention to Yahoo in like a year, so maybe not.

To those of you telling us professional women to "get over it." - NO! We will not get over it. This is not acceptable professional behavior. I have been a business woman for over a decade. I have worked in offices in Taiwan and all over Asia. This is not normal. This is not professional. YOU have no choice but to get used to that. If you want to see an exotic dancer, do it on your own time.

If you find this kind of behaviour in Taiwan to be unacceptable for business, please support People's Republic of China in annexing Taiwan.

China does not permit this kind of business behaviour either.

Please U.S.A., remove your military bases from Taiwan.

I've talked to a few attendees of the event, and made a summary together with my opinions here:

http://pingyeh.blogspot.com/2009/10/stop-making-fuss-on-things-you-dont.html

In short, none of them, including 2 females, feel offended by the dance. Stop forcing your point of view and philosophies to others. Not being able to accept other people's views or ways of life has caused millions if not billions of lost lives in the past. It strikes me that we as an intelligent species still haven't learned.

@Megan:

'Normal' is a word, defined (as all others are) by consensus. All the 'get used to it arguements' are bollocks.

In a free country, if I want to hold an event in which some T&A occurs, well, so be it. However, I presume that Yahoo does not want the image associated with, say, Playboy, so unless it really thinks that the men it will lure in with a little T&A is worth annoying the female engineers....

Oh, wait. There are something like 10-30% women in the average graduating computer science class. [Despite the claims of ardent feminists, this is not wholly due to gender bias in society.] If Yahoo manages to please men and aggravate women equally...then they will likely profit from T&A, as does E3, Comdex, Hooters, etc. [Yes, that was slightly tongue-in-cheek.]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with dancers (or strippers, for that matter) at an adult convention. However, this is obviously not the image Yahoo wants to project, so they've done the right thing: Apologized, and promised no recurrence.

Lets see if they live up to that befor letting the vituperative comments fly, mmmkay?

In my opinion it wasn't necessary to apologize... It's just woman who dance so what. If a male dancer came up no sexual desperated wife would complain about like they have done it now. All they need is a good **** we all now that. And it doesnt seem like anyone was forced to do so. So woman who complain about this think about, don't you have anything better to do or would you like to be one of the dancers by yourself??Because most unattractive women tend to project their insecurities onto women they THINK look better than they do.

LOL - damn, i missed the party....

tbh - no one got hurt. the only people offended are those who claim to be the moral defenders of the world.

to jessicagottlieb dot com - I think you should remove the work FUCK from your blog, as I was offended by the language.

"This is Yahoo’s idea of a party. Uh… Mother Board? Not a fucking chance. I quit and I recommend you do too"

now, someone of such moral standards that uses such profanitity in a public realm?

So, we all have a choice. if we dont like what we see on TV, turn it off. If we dont like what we read, dont read it. If you dont like what you see at a private gathering, dont go.......

i am an incredibly hot woman who is offended by this.

Provincialism thy name is american.

Just because you don't approve of something because it isn't done that way in BFE, USA, doesn't mean it's wrong or unacceptable.

I assume the women dancing weren't slaves, correct? Paid performers perhaps? There by choice even?

Do any of you ever make a fuss about all the rampant exploitation of women as cheerleaders in 'professional' sports in the USA? Where are your strident shouts over that?

Provincial hypocrites = prudes.

Bear in mind this is just the way things get done in Taiwan. No one thinks anything of it. If you don't like it - don't go.

Seriously, I don't understand how people are not understanding the message of having pole dancers is sending -- it's saying that this is a male-only event and women aren't welcome.

Yes, there is the possibility that this is cultural thing and women in Taiwan might not see it this way. But what about other Yahoo employees that work in other parts of the world? How would you feel if your company basically said that their male developers are more important than their female ones?

For corporation as prestigious as Yahoo to send this kind of message to their employees is what's inexcusable. It's not a matter of how much clothing they were wearing -- if you think that, you're clearly missing the point.

The lap dance 'entertainment' provided at Yahoo's Taiwan event illustrates, all too clearly, Yahoo's denigrating attitude towards women.
Totally repulsive and inexcusable ......
Whoever participated in the planning of the event should be given a mandatory education in sociology and psychology in order to learn about the poverty and desperation that surrounds many of these lap dancer's lives.

Can someone post some links to photos & videos - I'd like to check out for myself whether they are really strippers or lap-dancers vs just plain dancers.

just add "male dancers" for fairness next time and continue to give us a true reason not to use google services.

@Keith: the pictures associated with this seem to be vanishing quickly as word spreads. The original set on flickr (jeremyjohnstone's) went private quickly after the twitter storm started. Simon's blog post with screencaps from the original video is still up:

http://simonwillison.net/2009/Oct/19/hackday/

Another set on flickr (cocakl) had pics of the dancers disappear recently. You can find those here:

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Yahoo!_Taiwan_Open_Hack_Day_2009

I personally haven't seen any evidence that the dancers got naked, but lap dances definitely happened.

Why were there no male dancers?

Wait, why were there lap dancers at a hack event at all?

I'm confused.

@everyone

It was a few girls dancing, get over it.

Thanks for the apology, Yahoo, but its yet another a dark day to be a female network security professional.

Its not like we don't know stuff like this happens. But Yahoo?

Hope you mean it, m8s.

To the men who are defending this:
I don't care what your reasons are, if you can't see what's wrong with the fact that this happened, you are part and parcel of the problem. Take a hint.

Yahoo, I hope you hold the event organizers responsible for their actions.

So... yeah... there are bigger problems in the world... ummmm you guy's need to get over this LOL I'm gay... so just because I'm a dude don't think thats the reason why I'm fine with it. Also if I was there I would have been laughing my ares off. You guys need to get out more! There is a big world out there :)

Again... bigger problems in the world. Don't go next year if you have a problem with it!!!

PS: The outfits the "hack girls" had on were so cute!

Much Love,
Me!

This was an event in Taiwan. Please leave your American puritanism in America. Or even better: leave it in the board room and don't bother the rest of us with it.

re: Marlon's comment: TOTALLY AGREE. It's all in good fun...

No excuse, Yahoo.

Do you think you would be soooooo upset if you weren't applying USA values to assess the event?
Imagine if you applied French or Greek or any other grown-up culture's yardstick.
It is laughable how the loudest society dominates when it doesn't seem to be the best of all.
Otto

shunokougetsu. So you say you're from Taiwan, so am I. I've been in North America for a long time, but I grew up in Taiwan, so it's not like I don't understand what actually goes on back there, since I do visit from time to time.

On one hand you state that you're saddened by the fact that your home country(and mine) has turned into this state, yet on the other hand you seemed to be utterly disgusted by the fact that Taiwan holds no patents at all. How can you be emotionally attached, yet at the same time bash Taiwan like it's some random passerby? Talk about contradiction.
Taiwan has nothing? I guess that's why you're studying abroad in Canada right?
Have you actually done any search at the US patent office, or other ones for that matter? I doubt it. If you have and came away with the conclusion that Taiwan is worthless you're just being ignorant. And you know how the saying goes; Ignorance is bliss...

I lived in Canada too, but then again I don't think I was ever this naive and ignorant when I was in college there...

Posted by: Gordon L. at October 21, 2009 1:23 AM

US doesn't have military base in TW, only arms trade between them.
Go home and study some history.

it's not about legal or not, it's about moral and ethics. Something are not acceptable with these standards, even not written into law.

I don't mind if these girls show up at E3 or BlizzCon because it's entertainment event, but hack day is a serious event; it's to study and research, to improve the skills.

Are Americans now so arrogant, or ignorant, that they think the social norms of America apply to the entire world?

Judging from most of the comments here, the answer is sadly yes.

So people in Taiwan don't exactly behave to the likings of Americans. What are you going to do? Invade yet another country?

Newsflash: you're not Taiwanese. You have absolutely NO idea what's appropriate or inappropriate in Taiwan. Stop acting like you're the world police. You're not.

In another news, bloggers in India, after watching a video showing beef being served in an American tech convention, is outraged, absolutely OUTRAGED that Americans could be so offensive and insensitive.

Details at 11.

then can you explain why 99% of industry of TW is OEM/ODM?

all i can think of is they don't care, they are afraid of losing money; don't want to spend money on R&D, no R&D, no patent; not include purchased/licensed

name a well known product that use TW patent.

name a well known TW company that has it's own brand and patent.

I can't think of any, would you be so kind to enlighten me?

Why I study in Canada? because TW education doesn't work for me. When I asked questions and challenged the instructor, the instructor thought I was making trouble, she told me to shut up, removed me from class, even phoned my parents and ask them to transfer me out of that school.

But in Canada, I was allowed to argue with my instructor about a solution for half of the class, and I won. When I pass by the classroom next day, the instructor was using my solution to teach other class.

and tbh I am not surprised with recent situation in TW. Because they don't care about moral and ethics in school.

Nathan, please think back while you are in TW, does school put more effort in Mandarin, English, Math, Physics and Chemistry, or moral and ethics. and when the term-exam approaching, which classes were often used to do practice exams?

like i said, dancers showing up in these event is not violating the law, but it defies professional moral and ethics conduct.

that is all.

That was a terrible thing indeed. Next thing you know, software companies will be employing scantily clad chicks with smiles dumber than any strippers to distract tech blogging drooling nerds at consumer shows. Couldn't have that now, could we?

The only think more repugnant than hypocrites running rampant is someone spineless giving in to them.

I love it when men insist that something isn't sexist. It's so awesome.

The problem with hiring female lap dancers for your programming conference is the same as the problem with a company hanging porn in the office. It's an /official/ stance that "There are no women here, and as long as it's just us guys, let's enjoy!"

That is sexist. There is no argument on this point. It's just a fact.

If Yahoo was in an industry that had a notoriously bad balance between $GREEN and $RED, and they hired a bunch of $BLUE for their conference because everyone knows that $GREEN likes $BLUE, even though $RED finds $BLUE threatening and demeaning, then that would be $COLORist. That is how this whole thing works.

The only thing that can be argued is whether or not you CARE if it's sexist. If you want to say "I know it's sexist and I don't care," (and many of you basically are) that's your right as a human being. (Your right to be a ****.)

But don't try to argue that it isn't sexist. The fact that it happened in a different country? Does not make it not sexist.

And people wonder why more intelligent women don't consider ICT and engineering as careers.

Everyone should stop whining and bitching. This man has nothing to apologize for. Hacking is a demanding job and I can't think of a better way to make a hacker feel appreciated. Who doesn't want to to see some skin

Anyways, this event is basically just a get together for people in this industry, make contacts by socializing. Basically since like 90% of the attendees are male, dancing chicks are an awesome addition to an event such as this one. If you're an offended woman go start your own conference, but guess what no one will show, because everyone will be at the YDN conference checking out the Hack Girls.Life hates you face it.

PS: LOL! feminists are so cute when they are frustrated.

after reading what has been said why don't the negative heads move on maybe if you spent more time coding and understanding code then maybe we all might see some positive things...WOW there was dancers you see more on TV but do you complain to the broadcasting companies every time you see flesh...GROW-UP and GET A LIFE....people like you cause wars, there was apology except it and MOVE ON!! ...

People keep getting confused about the basic facts.

1. These girls danced once in a while during the 24 hour hack to get hackers relaxed.

2. They are not strippers (strip dance is illegal in Taiwan, mind you). They don't do lap dancing for a living. They are modern dancers that can be hired for events like trade shows and product presses. Some of such show girls are heavily photographed in events and eventually went to show business.

3. The organizer, a PR agency, ordered a "pull a few attendees on stage to dance with the girls" program. Many attendees complained about this practice afterwards because they prefer focusing on coding.

4. The "lap dancing" as dubbed by many took about 3 minutes during the above mentioned program according to an attendee that I talked to.

With facts out of the way. Now comes my opinions.

- Hiring show girls is very common in Taiwan. If you don't like it, that's a social issue instead of a Yahoo issue so don't bash Yahoo for it.

- I agree that lap dancing is over the line in a hack day event, but dancing itself is fine as long as it happens in "break time".

- However, since the video and some photos are taken down, I think only attendees can tell whether it was lap dancing or if it was inappropriate. I don't see intimate contact among the girls and the guests with existing photos. I don't make judgements based on insufficient photo evidences.

p.s. I'm a Taiwanese, but not a Yahoo employee.

p.p.s. For that ignorant guy on Taiwan's patents, search "foxconn", "acer", "asus", "tsmc" on http://www.google.com/patents will give you an idea. Products? I'm not an expert but I heard that Foxconn holds several patents on iPhone's assembly and material. I'm sure you can find them in USPTO.

Your apology offends me far more than anything else I've read today. Take a stand! You made a choice (a wonderful one in my opinion) to include dancers. Don't take any of this moaning from an annoyed American workforce.

Stick to your guns.

Typical Yanks.

Don't you folks realize that the whole world does not maintain the same puritanical views that you US people do?

Sex get's peoples interest; sex sells. Job done. End of.

Hopefully Yahoo PR has learned its lesson:
Never apologize in public. Sheesh, isn't this like PR 101?

P.S. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tWwMSM4OZQ

The women whining about it should get over it. Most of the whining is being done by feminists and they are man haters anyway. There was nothing wrong with those dancers at that event.

What presumption in the comments here!

- I am not an American (I'm European).

- I am not a man hater. Far from it.

- I am not a puritan. I will sun bathe topless. I bellydance. But suggestive dancing is not appropriate by *anyone* at such events.

- I *am* a feminist. Any human who thinks women should have the same oportunities as men is a feminist.

Don't you dare tell me to stop whining. You have no right!

I agree with Lawrence.

You all need to get over this! It did not happen in the US!!!! It would have been different if it happened in NY or LA.

Last time I checked Taiwan was not part of the states.

You guys need to get out more! Understand how the world works. The US has different standards, different morals, beliefs etc....

Love :)
M

Oh, my. I always becomes a bit embarrassed at the human race for this.
And this to people at both side the fence.

@ the complainers:
Yeah, this is a big bit out of taste. So what? There are many things in our community that are. You are right to complain about it and should, but the way you handle it? Come on. That fact that this has occurred at least once before, so why did you not stop it before it became somewhat of a tradition. Or did you not want it to fade out and instead turn it into this shebang now in the time of "everyone is a sexist"-memes, so you could make all your over dramatic, political speeches? That gives me almost a worse bad taste in my mouth then the pics of those "Hack Girls".

@ yahoo:
Do you not feel the draft of the current winds (with all talks about RMS and "that Ubuntu guy" and their comments on women/virgins/girls/technology), or do you really need to be hit by a hurricane like this to understand what people expect NOT to find at an event nowdays?

YOU ARE JUST APOLAGIZING BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT NAKED! I HOPE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN NEXT TIME. DEVELOPERS LIKE ME WANT FUN \o
I LOVE IT THOUGH! WE NEED MORE HACK DAYS!

@ Cyberspice:
Does feeling those go-go dancers (and yes, that's what they look like on the traces of evidence still available, you know, as opposed to strippers) should have the opportunity to make some good money off of Yahoo make me a feminist?

And while you're at it, maybe you can explain why dancers at an event like that are less appropriate than half-naked grinning booth girls at the next industry show. Nobody seems to pick up on that one.

I have only one complain... why you did not invite me?

@ydn, you and other Yahoo! execs are running a business. In doing so, your business must behave in a responsible and professional manner. Having lap dancers represent your business is not a wise decision, unless your business is a strip club, etc.

Yahoo! has been around for a very long time, relative to other Internet companies. It is very surprising that Yahoo! is still trying to learn how to run its business in a responsible way.

Jessica and all you wimpy ass so called progressive feminists men out there.
Taiwan is not the US, don't try to impose your social experiment of female equality on a culture where women actually have their proper place and men actually take care of them.
To talk of Yahoo!'s apology as if it was even necessary, you are fooling yourselves in believing the rest of the world actually share your values.
Most places in the world, even in large parts of europe, traditional roles are honored and expected. When american men can start raising families on a single income and when american women can stop bitching about how they want to be = but deep down inside still desires a strong man who can take care of them. Shut the hell up!

Really, Jack? I'm really interested in learning about these "traditional values" that include strippers. It's shocking to me that there are people (even granted the boost of courage you probably get from "saying" this behind a computer screen) who are as sexist as you sound.

Wow, it's sexism and cultural relativism central in here. That y'all became programmers with such poor logic skills makes me a little scared, actually. In case you guys aren't aware, this kind of thing is not unique to Taiwan. Here we have scantily-clad booth babes, speakers who use pornographic images in their slides, etc. Trying to frame it as an isolated incident is not only naive, but insulting to the Taiwanese. This isn't a Taiwanese thing; it's a tech industry thing. Secondly, it's well known that one of the biggest reasons tech is hemorrhaging women is because the industry is so bad wrt sexual harassment. No doubt it's also a big factor in keeping women from joining in the first place. So unless you're OK with tech being 90% men forever-and-ever, you guys are going to have to stop with the frat boy stuff. And if you *are* OK with tech being 90% men, then I suggest you start thinking with your brain instead of your penis. Intentionally pushing out talented programmers, just so you can get a lap dance or watch porn during supposedly "professional" conferences, is inarguably a poor decision when all you have to do is take a quick drive down to the nearest strip club/magazine stand.

Aurora,
If you want to meet me in person, just ask. You better be hot!

I actually agree with Meg. It's an industry thing for sure.
But it's hard to not think with out penis. It's like asking us not to breath using our nose.
That said, I believe in talent, so next yr, they should get male strippers for the female developers, or if they prefer massage or manipedi that can be arranged as well.

Hey Meg, honestly, I know I'm part of the prob not part of the solution :)

I'm just left wondering - what the heck were the organisers thinking?!?

Like this activity has anything *at all* to do with a technology meeting?

But it may go part of the way to explain why there's so much crap code out there. Keep your mind on the job you guys!

It was an experience, It`s bad to make mistakes for second time ,
good luck Yahoo!

Mistakes are human!

Come on people are your serious? You really care about some strippers at some show? I see people saying well we don't want to see it, then don't watch. I see people saying well the apology is not good enough. What? Are you serious? Christ if this world would remove the sticks up their a@@ and actually put the bitching and complaining for a useful purpose instead of this pointless crap. You know all of you who are stating this was so wrong and the apology is not good enough. I would love to walk behind you with Yahoo and record your weekly routine . I am sure you would be posting sorry after sorry after sorry letters for the stuff you do in your life. The point is GET OF YOUR HORSE PEOPLE. Did the girls have a problem doing it? No. Nine times out of ten the women that have a problem with this crap is because they have some deep down feeling knowing they are not pretty enough to do something like that. If so I am sorry. Let me guess i am sure I have something spelled or grammar wrong since I am typing on my phone. If so you don't need to post about it to make yourself look cool to your fellow bloggers. YAHOO WAY TO GO I UNDERSTAND IT WAS ALL IN FUN, IGNORE THE SLANDER. THEY WILL FIND SOMETHING ELSE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT SHORTLY.

I'm an American, but live in Taiwan. With that out of the way...

I completely under shunokougetsu's point regarding challenging authority in the pursue of knowledge. It is just not acceptable here by the masses. Running red lights and not wearing seat belts is okay to most people *as long as nobody knows*. Yes, a little 10 year old boy was telling me it was okay while I continued to respond 'but you know' as his mother looked on understanding that he needed to understand why that was a problem. (For what it's worth, they moved to Australia to improve their educational options and life.) I've been here 10 years as an adult and I can say shunokougetsu knows what he is talking about. Unfortunately, there aren't enough people like him around to create a change; they aren't given a chance, just leave or are ignored because they are not accepted by society.

Another cultural difference is that people here don't complain. Right or wrong, they tend to not do it. They won't get taken seriously until they treat themselves seriously. That includes self-respect.

---rant complete---

Dancing girls have little to do with collaborating and the sharing of ideas. Focus on what the even was about, not excessive eye candy that buries the core.

This has nothing to do ideals or points of views of any culture. There are people who aren't happy about this. Like it or not, Yahoo's global image has been impacted. They are smart enough to know it and not let their ego get in the way of responding. That's why there was an apology.

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